vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
109284-your-opinons-of-the-state-of-the-gameand-its-future-page-2
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4 Content Actually he was being polemic. What he means is obviously that many people have a false sense of entitlement, ie that think they have some sort of right to "see the content" because they have paid for a game. Another way to phrase that is "please remove all difficulty and effort from the game". Because that is the only way you can get every person playing MMORPGs through all of it. Try to apply this ridiculous medals-for-everyone philosophy to any other game - or indeed any other aspect of life - and see for yourself how absurd it is. "I bought a chessboard so I demand to be grand master immediately!", "I bought these tights and yet I don`t look as good as Mikail Baryshnikov! I want my money back!". You get the point. And that`s what people mean when they criticise others for being entitled. "Spoiled" is probably a better word, but only pedants can fail to understand the context here. | |} ---- ---- Play with friends! Fun times on Pergo with goofy world pvp by going into the opp faction's capital. I'm hoping to do an occupy Thayd museum night one day. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- But they do have that right. It's called "voting with your wallet." It goes like this: Developer: "Here is a game! I want you to pay $60 (give or take discounts or deluxe options) up front, and $15 a month after that for it!' Player: "What will I get for it?" Developer: "Well, you'll be able to see most of what you paid for. Like, oh, 85%. But the last 15% you won't get to see unless you are HARDCORE and willing to plow a lot of time into the game. We're reserving that part of the game for our special customers who are willing to work at it!" Player: "Okay, if I'm only going to get 85% of the content, I want to pay 85% of the price, both for the box and the monthly sub. That's fair, right?" Developer: "Uh, no. All boxes and subs are the same price." Player: "Uh....no. Not paying 100% of the price for 85% of the content." Developer: "But you have the OPTION of seeing the last 15%! If you work for it!" Player: "It's a game. It's for fun. I don't want to work for it. You're not paying me to play it. I'm paying you to be entertained. Right?" Developer:"Well, we really don't want any entitled players around here. We think you should have to work for our content." Player: "Funny -- I think you should have to work for my money. I'm not paying 100% for 85% because I'm not stupid." (Puts away credit card and walks away.) Developer: "PEOPLE IN THE FORUMS WILL CALL YOU MEAN NAMES IF YOU DO THAT! YOU DON'T WANT THAT, DO YOU, CUPCAKE??!" Player: (Keeps right on walking.) ----------------- Given that we live in a free society with a free market, there is one thing players are absolutely and unequivocally entitled to -- and that is to say whether or not they want to pay $60 (give or take) plus $15 per month for this game. If they want access to 100% of the game for that price, and are not satisfied with 85%, you can fume and fuss about how "spoiled" and "ungrateful" they are however much you want to, and not one single tiny little thing will change. You still won't have their money for Carbine and Wildstar. If gamers today want access to 100%, and they don't get it, THE GAME LOSES. Period. You have no control or influence over how other people spend their money. None. Nada. Nil. Zip. You are powerless, and so is Carbine. Is this "unfair" to Carbine and Wildstar? I don't think so. I think telling people they have to take what Carbine wants to give them -- 85% or whatever -- and shut up and keep paying because they don't "deserve" to see that last 15% is unfair. It's one thing if people are happy with the 85% they get; I was in WoW for six years and saw only a few of the raids but never felt cheated. It's another if people say "This 85% isn't enough to earn my money," and Elitists on the the forums start screaming "Well you're not going to see ONE PERCENT MORE OF THE CONTENT unless you EARN it, you scrub!". The only answer to that, of course, is to close your wallet and walk away -- back to WoW, back to TESO, FFXIV, GW2, or the dozens of other games out there today. It doesn't matter where the money goes. What matters is Carbine and Wildstar won't be getting it unless they give today's player base the value that the players want for their money. Because they players are entitled to say whether or they are happy with what they are getting. Period. End of story. Game over, man. Game over. | |} ---- ---- i just wonder where the $60 come from. even without any discounts i only paid around $35 for wildstar with a free month. thats less than a usual wow expansion for more content. ans still its more stuff you get then a singleplayergame where you pay $60 and end it in about 8 hours. also your argument about casuals only getting 85% of the content is bs. or do you yell at devs of other games for making different difficulties in their game? every "casual" can easily raid. my guild consists about 90% complete casual gamers and its seems strange to have nearly everyone attuned. so just stop refering to this argument | |} ---- ---- This is it in a nutshell, Carbine should pay attention. People got to lvl 50 and there was nothing to do and they left! I have limited playtime due to family commitments during the summer and have yet to get to 50, but I'm taking my time, because I know there won't be much for me to do. Raiding is just too time consuming. Maybe this game got more mature player's and Carbine just didn't realise what effect that would have on the game. | |} ---- ---- Do you know how many times i sold low lvl gear & mats in WoW x10 times more expensive than high end ones? I m not even mention the twink items. Market is player driven and this is the way it should be anyway. My only problem is that in most WS servers economy cant work as intended because of the low population. | |} ---- No, they're just arranging a price that accurately depicts the rarity of the items on offer. This happens in any market and is exacerbated by the fact that this game is hemorrhaging customers (fewer people farming rare things = super high prices). People have been telling these guys that leather and bone drops are too infrequent and that they need to push those numbers up. Carbine didn't listen. The result is that you've got to be stinking rich to constantly reroll crafted gear for good runes and you and everyone else have got dailies to do with stuff like thick bones. Since fewer and fewer new characters are moving through those areas and getting those items, it only leaves top level characters to go back and farm them, which takes them away from stuff they'd probably rather be doing. Problem 2: Alts are stupidly grindy to work up. You pick a character and commit early or you're grinding dailies for all your alts just to get your damned elder points for the week, which is not fun. No alts going through areas = higher prices for lower level materials. You can get thick bones if you're willing to do so, even though it's no damned fun. Go kill walruses around the lake in Whitevale. Then, after doing that for a while, ask yourself how much cash you could have made using your favorite method for the same amount of time (and you'll probably be adding on a fee for the boredom inducing grind it takes to get them). That is how prices work and are set. | |} ---- Low population and the market especially the CREDD system is probably another factor slowing the server merges... people moving from servers where cred may have been 6-10 plat where it is 4-6 plat. | |} ---- Demand drives price. Economics 101 there little one. The fact you don't like it means nothing, you need it and someone else has it. So either pay or go farm it yourself. Whining about it and blaming it on the player base shows you lack of experience with the wider world. You are in for a very rough ride in the years to come. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I think you`re missing a key point here that Carbine obviously isn`t keen to broadcast. And that is the timing of the release. Wildstar came out deliberately right as the summer lull was about to kick in, with pale MMORPG players going on holidays and not playing games. There is every chance that the population will increase through the fall and into Christmas. But the early release gave Carbine a chance to iron out issues while the servers weren`t too crowded. So what we`re currently undergoing is a live server stress test more than anything. It could backfire I suppose, but this is what I think is going on. And that makes sense of why Carbine isn`t reacting to calls for mergers. It`s too early and they are expecting increased traffic. | |} ---- As usual this is ass backwards, and may I say way too long considering how ass backwards it is. You pay to be able to play the game, not see the entire game regardless of time spent, effort or skill. And this has been the case with every single video game ever made. When I bought Iridis Alpha on the C64 back in 1986 there was no guarantee from Jeff Minter that I would be able to get through all the levels. How could there be? The game was insanely hard! The only way he could guarantee that would be to remove all the mobs and/or make it impossible to die. And then what`s the point of the game? Unless people are able to understand this simple concept, which a five year old should be able to grasp, this conversatipon is pointless. The only thing people achieve by making all these ass backwards demands is to destroy games by making them too easy and undemanding. You`ve already done this with WoW. Please go back to WoW and leave me alone. I have already escaped you and your ass backward thinking once. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- This is the Hype Cycle for worthwhile technologies, not for entertainment products. A real technology of worth is always overhyped in terms of what it will do, but eventually people's expectations normalize and the technology's capabilities (and limits) are acknowledged and it settles down. That's what this graph shows. This doesn't happen for entertainment. A movie can be hyped to the sky, and if it's no good when it's actually released, it will never reach a "plateau of productivity." Ditto for a new album....and a new video game. So I fixed the graph for you. | |} ---- ---- ---- Best post in this thread. EXACTLY what is happening now. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- So even you admit the economics is *cupcake*ed and you don't have an ethical bone in your body to realize the implications of your actions. The human condition. Lucky the world operates beyond "economics 101." | |} ---- This is the same player base that tried to value small fish at 1 Plat. Eventually the price was set to around 20 silver. What you are saying is true and logical but the player base in general is greedy. Especially since they know the community is suffering, they do it anyway. Like the cartels in Mexico controlling their government. Most of the player base operates on that ethical code. | |} ---- ...yes. Most players of MMOs are currently slaughtering children and civilians, raping women, recruiting pre-teens to be assassins and trafficking narcotics via god knows what ungodly methods.. Yep. Same ethical code. | |} ---- Yes. That neither gives a crap about the health of the community. That's the point of ethics. What they doing is breaking the law. Little to do with ethics. | |} ---- Ethics. "Moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior." I'm not sure the moral principles of rapists, murderers and drug dealers is really 'compatible' to an MMO asking for 1p for some fish. Seriously. WAY off course. And kind of insulting to the people of Central America. | |} ---- Yes, I'm exactly saying the players lack morals. Regardless of the extreme examples your citing, it's about the lack of regard for the health of the community. It's obvious most players are out for themselves. That's their choice but when there no one around, there's no one to blame but themselves. | |} ---- Okay. | |} ---- Mexico is in North America. The irony of what is "insulting." | |} ---- Sure thing, boss. | |} ---- Oh... my... God. | |} ---- Eh, it's all a matter of definitions. Of course, Central America isn't even a consideration in my picture. Just saying he's not wrong exactly. :P | |} ---- Not getting into this, but Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Costa Rica and Panama would like a word with you. | |} ---- ---- That was.. kinda my point and why I just ignored it. Central America has nothing to do with Mexico. lol. | |} ---- ---- ---- How does that matter? Mexico, by continental definition, is part of North America. :huh: That's a correct statement. As I said, if you want to bring Central America into it, it's more correct to call it Central America. But "Central America" is not a continent according to standard models. | |} ---- Africa matters! LOL. (American Education System Quality Joke. :) ) | |} ---- ---- Well said. I'm at a cross roads where I enjoy Wildstar, but I'm not addicted. And it feels weird. I log in when I get bored, burn a few hours and log out. And I'm not sure if that's a problem with me or the game. Should I WANT to constantly log in? Previous experience says yes. But.. at the same time, was previous experience correct? I dunno. I feel weird about Wildstar right now. Kinda like that girlfriend who you tell no one about. | |} ---- ---- ---- We'll see what they've got planned for this ultradrop thing. | |} ---- ---- This. This might be my problem. Once you hit cap, there's raids or... well... everything else that you've already been doing for 50 levels. And to which everyone says, "Isn't that the same in all other MMOs?" Yes, but no? There's end game dungeons with gear that kinda matters. There's stuff to DO that's worth while. Wildstar, we've got Raids. And they're awesome. But that's literally it. The dungeons are awesome with their design, but it's like surfing on a Great White Shark in the middle of a Tornado. Sounds cool, but is it REALLY worth it? lol | |} ---- This! No one really plays to have fun anymore. I really hate logging on just to find a second job. Raid time this, raid time that. Must do this, must do that. No one wants to run dungeons just because they can. No one wants to kill wbosses just because they can. And no one wants to play just to have fun just because they can. | |} ---- ---- I like to just go out and kill mobs(farm) but the way Carbine places mobs on zone maps is terrible. Western Grimvault feels like it fits and there are camps of NPC. The rest of zones feel like they placed a piece of paper on the floor and randomly spit on it to see where to place NPC's. Its crap and needs help. Where are the forts and caves? Tons of this pre 50 but non after level 50 add more content for people to go out and KILL! Add random quests, random quest drops, named npcs, special dye drop or customs in these places. Stop making huge zones with monsters just scattered around which to me looks like zero thought. The 5 man dungeon quests were cool but yeah 1 time thing.. Good try good effort everyone gets a medal. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Fine, two years. That's what I'm saying. I hope it lasts long enough to see a real expansion. | |} ---- ---- That's the weird part. EQ2? Alts. WoW? Alts. Secret World? Gave up on. Warhammer? Neverplayed. Wildstar? I don't know why but leveling twice feels like optional exploratory orthodontic surgery. I'd be interested to see how the 'virtual space' or size of the worlds add up when comparing EQ2 to WoW to Wildstar. | |} ---- ---- ---- TOR: alts and raiding, some unranked pvp, the occasional Hardmode Flashpoint (Wildstar's Veteran Dungeons) for commendations (end-game currency). But after 1.5 years, I've done all the stories (some twice) and the raids are stale with nothing new on the horizon so my sub there has lapsed. Recently picked up WoW so all the content is new. Some places are a bit grindier than I prefer, but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel unlike here: was that a light or an RNG induced hallucination? Wait, what's that? I-is that actually an upgrade? C-can we do this again? | |} ---- Run dundeons just because you can? Yep, I do that all the time actually. I think they are a blast. I will join a dungeon with guildies, from zone chat in the capital city, or just by using the LFG tool. The longest I've waited for a dungeon to pop in LFG as a DPS is around 20-25 minutes on off hours. Kill world bosses just because you can? Hell no. They were not fun or challenging the first time, and they are not going to be fun and challenging the second time. I'd like to see this and the rep grind removed from the attunement process simply because it is boring busy work IMO. I do raid for fun with raid times that are set in stone. It's not for everybody, but I love it. I wouldn't be opposed to an LFR in this game either since the raids are by far (IMO) the best content in the game. EDIT: When I say "off hours" I should really just say early PST hours, since I'm not really in the middle of the night off hours. | |} ---- ---- ---- Uh what? The problem is those drops just aren't too great. No one would buy them at much higher prices because crafted gear still rules most slots or is at least very competitive. This is also a problem, but it's completely different beast from what you describe. And if you think drops are the best way to make money that "the studio" would nerf so players get less plat, you're incredibly clueless anyway. :huh: | |} ---- I raided all of TBC and everything in Wrath except for ICC and the gear on my main was always pretty up to date with the content patches that were releasing raids. Even though i outgeared them i still tanked for friends and guildies who wanted to run alts through the old heroic dungeons and i would also tank alt runs like alt kara or alt naxx10. I would also roll alts of my own and i actually did a lot of that in TBC and also did some more in Wrath. And then when it was my turn people would run me through heroics and run me through alt kara and stuff. I tried to do the same thing in SWTOR but the planetside storyline made alt play really painful. Sure there were 8 unique class storylines total but a bulk of my leveling still involved the planetary storylines. With WoW i didnt have that problem...i could roll a character and there would be several branching paths early on i could take, then it would merge, then it would branch again to several zones. When they added TBC and Wrath the zones did the same thing where it would start as one then branch off into two, then merge then branch again. Same in Wrath, same in Cata and same in MoP. SWTOR had the same fricking planet every time and i think even the hubs on those planets were in linear format. WS seems like it has the same thing. Yah it has two zones after arkship and two zones after that, but then it merges into one at Galeras and Auroria and it stays as one path all the way to level cap. | |} ---- The other incentive for wow was for the people who did not raid comms were gotten from dailies that would count towards buying good armor pieces... On top of this if you were a tank/healer and in demand you would get a bag with goodies in it for clearing a dungeon when solo quueing... | |} ---- There are a lot of epic purple drops being sold for 50g or 1p right now. | |} ---- Bugs that can't be fixed since beta (or at least you have to beg Carbine to compensate you for your crafted item turning white with no stats). | |} ---- 7.) Confusing randomness (RNG) with complexity and character diversity. | |} ---- ---- We have a thread about that here, with support on the case. If you submit a ticket and put the error in the title they'll expedite the request to free up the character for you. They're actively looking for a resolution in the mean time. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- If they go with megaservers? Two to three months afterward. Guaranteed. | |} ---- ---- I'll disagree with you. I was a Fan of this game for year and first 2 month of play, but now, I don't recommend it to anyone, because lack of endgame stuff. Maybe after a few Drops situation will change. | |} ---- Me too! I was a blatant whiteknight during the Beta period and would chase to even hell anybody who tried to say a wrong word about Wildstart. But now, that I have reached endgame my vision had been cleared from the delusion. Its a pay2play korean grindfest, clustered whit RNG madness and cupcaked up mechanincs which are working on paper nicely, but in reality.... not so well. I admit, the combat is original, and the game has some interesting mechanics which Carbine managed to cupcake up. Sadly Blizzard will steal all of these good ideas and will master it like it always done it in the past. Its a shame.... Just one example from the long list: The game has zero immersion. The zones are pile on each other whitout any reason and you are in a pipe from level 1 to level 50. Instant traveling portals everywhere in the capital, insanely fast time. The content drops are a huge middle finger for me..... Recycled starting zones whit recolored buffed mobs whit zero generic quests. 2 zones which are in the same timeline, overused phasing. The list could go long, but I am tired of this game..... | |} ---- Who cares? If it does, it does...not a thing you nor I can do about it. I will mention however that my own policy is that if I purchase the game at full price, and it goes F2P I simply quit. I NEVER invest in a failure twice. | |} ---- ---- ---- Never. That's my bet. Can be picked up in infinity years. | |} ---- ---- ---- Hey man, roll an Alt on Evindra. Or Pergo. Or even Stormtalon. Get out now and come enjoy the game. Yeah, yeah, starting over. I know, I know. It sucks. But if your choice is to play a game you enjoy *with people* or just quitting in a huff ... come play. They're "working on it" ... so yeah, you might accidentally make some new friends for when the "fix" comes down the pipe. Your main will be there when it happens. :D | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Though I'm not 100% on board with everything said here, I agree with most of it. WoW became the game we thought we all wanted, but isn't the game we want. Wildstar tried to make the game we wanted, and most of us are agitated that it isn't what we think we want. People started and hated the packed servers, so they finally caved and gave us more. Then, it was leveling, tons of posts about how leveling itself was a boring timegate and should be done away with. Then it was that attunement shouldn't exist. Now it's gearing. It's like people started playing this MMORPG specifically to skip ahead to the very end and play that. That isn't really the strength of an MMORPG on any level. As the referenced article stated, we get to the end ASAP to play the endgame game, skipping the entire leveling and gearing process. That's what made these games so much fun to play. It's why, even as people call EVE Online an anomaly and even I point out its numerous functional flaws, it survives and thrives because it gets it. MMORPGs are at their most fun when you are getting together with people and improving your characters. It's the one truth about MMORPGs we simply fail to realize. That journey is what we really want, deep down. People keep wanting to not run into hurdles, to not have to play to win, to not have to grind. They want to be at the end as fast as possible, not realizing that once you're there, the game is over until they put in more content. And the one thing that hurts these games most is the lack of socialization, the thing that made playing these games better than sitting home alone with yourself in Diablo. Doing hard things with friends, going on an epic journey with plenty of trials in the way, it's what's made group RPG games the best since early book game days in the 70s. The re-enactment of the journey of the Fellowship to Mordor that founded a culture is lost as MMORPGs become more like normal games. That's what we've lost. | |} ---- I think WildStar is trying very hard to stand against the tide, and in their effort swung the pendulum a bit too far back without compensating for today's gamer momentum (attitude). Honestly these forums seem like home for a bunch of children with no patience and a stomp your foot atttude. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it only a little while since launch (spare me your 'ive been in beta since X' story, I was there). Yes. Will it get better. Without a doubt. Honestly, it will improve over time and especially when the footstompers go away - and I wish that they would. I'll bide my time and enjoy the game as I have been since I first set foot in beta. | |} ---- These days, 99 times of a 100, community is the biggest problem in any MMO. Most bugs and in-game hurdles, no matter how "game breaking", are overcome by a healthy community of players who understand and love the genre. Naturally, actual programmatic solutions have to follow suit, or it's all for naught. But there is usually a much longer tolerance threshold. What we are witnessing here very frequently is an example of gamers utterly burnt out on the genre, yet still looking for some kind of quick MMO methadone fix. Failing that, they start twitching and spazzing out almost immediately. It's incredible how short-fused and intolerant the players have become over the years. How easily they turn to toxic abuse. The game hasn't even been out full 3 months yet but the venom in some of the comments would lead you to believe that a full year has gone by and the gameplay is mired in insurmountable problems. On one hand I don't want to necessarily trivialize other people's concerns, because some of them are valid, albeit very often extremely overstated. But on the other hand, the mind boggling negativity over the silliest things is just becoming laughable at this point. A warrior can't tank because his threat sucks? Ok, so there is a broken spec (NOT a broken class). Chill out. Go DPS for while. Let someone else tank until the class is fixed. Are you that inflexible in an MMO? Why are you even playing an MMO if you just want to do ONE thing? Try enjoying other aspects of the game. These things happen. It's going to be OKAY. *sigh* | |} ---- That article was an interesting read. I think a lot of what Mr. Kern has to say about the MMO leveling experience rings true. People tend to forget that MMORPGs are, at their core, role playing games.. Very few questers take the time to savor the lore and surroundings and actually immerse themselves in the "RP" aspect of the game. They just rush blindly to max level. On a similar but unrelated note, I was in a Vet Skullcano group the other night. We were on Mordechai Redmoon and a DPS left. We re-queued and got another one. Our new DPS (let's call him "Bob") had only recently hit 50 and had never been to Skullcano before. We pulled the boss and wiped very quickly because half the group, Bob included, died during the first beam phase. Bob said he died to the beam because he got stunned. I informed him that he needed to avoid the circles on the ground, and he replied, "Dungeons in this game are so broken." I asked him, "What's broken about it?" We died because we failed to mechanics. Nothing "broken" there. He went on to complain about the difficulty, his loss of interest in the game since reaching level 50, and stated that he'll be back once the game goes F2P and introduces LFR. It made me kind of sad, honestly. Is that really what gamers these days want? Easy games that don't punish for failure and award epics just for showing up? Why is content that requires one to have at least a couple of functioning brain cells considered "broken"? /rant :( | |} ---- Let's also take a side note here, this isn't WoW's fault, this is video games' fault. The entire industry has taken too much influence from film on board. Games became spectacles, not games. Games, in and of themselves, used to be an art form distinct from everything else. I could write an essay (again) on it, and how video games lately have become less of an art form and more of a movie with button presses. In an effort to become respected as an art, they became another form of art that was already existing. This comes back to MMORPGs because, well, look at the comments. How many have you seen that said, "People can't see raiding like this! Why play if you'll never see the inside of a raid?" People expect games to be like movies with button presses. People want to get through their little chore and see the next chapter of the story. FFXIV:ARR is awash in massive content breaks where you just watch cutscenes. SWTOR was lauded for its overdubbing and voice acting. WoW has simplified not because they wanted to make it accessible, but to make it more like a movie. "Here is one chapter, here is another chapter, here is another chapter, YOU'VE FINISHED THE ZONE! Wasn't that a great story?" MMORPGs, even "themeparks" took place in big open worlds with a lot of traveling between and random things to do along the way. Wildstar is even a victim of this to a point, especially through the leveling process. Luckily, there are a lot of tasks, events, world bosses, path quests, random hidden areas and caches, challenges, there's a TON of stuff out there if you explore and care. The people who did those things are having a great time. The people who rushed to the end and found out they didn't automatically get to see the next stage quit. Their movie had been interrupted. Games shouldn't be like film. Games art is in the encounter, in the gameplay. Nobody cared about the motivations of a plumber saving a princess from a giant spikey turtle, or cared at all about the backstory of the Hammer Brothers. That game was art because the art was in the gameplay. I'm not at all saying MMORPGs should have stories; stories are long established in RPGs. Carbine is, essentially a dungeonmaster for a giant oldschool RPG that servers thousands of people, and they tell stories and set settings. But most of the people who aren't appreciating the gameplay are missing the best art in Wildstar. Sure, there are things that need changed, and Wildstar's not perfect, but I can say there's one thing that sets Carbine and Wildstar above almost all other developers and games, respectively. Carbine gets the art of the game, not just the way to make a game into something else that's already its own art. | |} ---- While I don't disagree with some of what you said, I would like to address this point specifically. I've beta tested almost every MMO released since Dark Age of Camelot. Many of those I've tested right out of Alpha, and a couple from Alpha. I can tell you that many games, Wildstar included, were told/warned/etc. about bugs, gameplay, problems, and so on well before the game went live. Some of the most toxic members or topics come straight from that. There are hundreds/thousands of testers that have spoken up multiple times in beta about things that have gone live. Now these testers may not be the toxic individual, but their friends and companions might be. However, to those testers, the game has been "out" for much longer than 3 months. If you reported a bug 2 weeks after a game came out of Alpha, and 12 months later it was still in the Live Release, wouldn't you be a little pissy about it also? There's a large amount of overacting and over-reacting as well. | |} ---- I'd actually disagree with this. I don't think people want a movie-esque game. I think people instead want a game where the difficulty is "just right". The problem is that "just right" is different for everyone. Content will always be such that some people find it too hard, and others find it too easy. | |} ---- That is a valid point. Anyone irate over these bugs has every right to be irate. But I don't believe this to be the majority of complaints that are swamping the board at this time... | |} ---- At least as far as my own post goes... I love the changes that differentiates the actual game play from WS to WoW. Telegraph thing was brilliant imo! I'm ONLY talking about a pvp reward system. That isnt a fundamental part of gameplay but is a HUGE part of a game for pvpers. People on the whole do NOT want massive gear gaps! And they do NOT want an arena experience where someone can purposefully trash their rating only to use the massive gear gap to explode low rated pvpers and force said people to pay to get a high rating. WoW solved this! It isnt a fundamental part of actual pvp fighting and WS should have stolen the system. It took WoW years to perfect their reward system. Any new pvp game should largely follow their system. I believe if WS had more open world pvp battle points of interest it would be immensely popular and take pvp in a great new direction away from only having sandbox flavored arena/battleground experience. At least I know ppl loved open world pvp in WS even without having specific points of interest . There is much WS could do to further differentiate themselves from WoW. But in regards to arena/bg rewards... yeah they should have stolen WoWs system. It was done right. | |} ---- ---- I don't think it is, though. People weren't complaining because attunement was hard. Quite the opposite, most people asserted that it wasn't hard, it was just "tedious". A lot of things are "tedious" that take a long time but aren't necessarily hard. Whether people were talking out of their asses or not is up for debate, but it's the rare person who literally says something was too hard. And they complained, almost invariably, about not being able to see raids. Not to fight big bosses, not to be in big guilds (in fact, guilds came up as another bone of contention). But nobody says these things, like gearing and such, are too hard. They say it's taking too long and keeping them from raiding. It's also surprising how many people have come out to say that the only "endgame" is raiding and if you aren't raiding, you might as well not be here. Which seems a strange thing to say, especially since, from many of these posts, we've gleaned that it's not the only "endgame" but the only endgame these players wanted to see. They didn't want to do five mans over and over after attuning. They didn't want to do world bosses. They didn't even want to hunt 5 man world bosses, or do challenges, or hop over to PVP. People came in this game solely and specifically to raid, in vast numbers, and skipped years worth of developed content to "see" it. I really think that an age of gaming based around spectacle, games that are solely defined as action games between long cutscene frames and environments that weighted visual spectacle wherein little took place, foisted this image of games as movies on us. Games were about gameplay, back in the day they had to be. But the games-as-art debate became centered on story, on characters, on scene, and so games started taking a lot more cues from film. This came at the expense of the game as art; why would you spend ages designing a final boss cutscene if everyone couldn't get to it. The idea hit me when I was playing Final Fantasy XIII. I suddenly realized that pretty much every game, almost since VII, had been a long haul to the cutscene, not to the boss. The boss was in the way of the cutscene. Eventually, SquareEnix decided to spend more time on the scenes than on the gameplay; the game itself was almost disgustingly easy and linear. It had lost something important somewhere in the rush to show things off. It's why, ten years later, EVE online survives despite using the absolute wrong engine for their gameplay and stepping on their own feet, and with less players, too. Those players are married into the game. Even now, knowing its flaws, if Wildstar disappeared tomorrow, EVE would be my next stop, not even just due to difficulty (because, honestly, after you're over the PVP learning curve, EVE's not that hard), but because CCP got one major thing right. EVE is a game focused on the game. Carbine does that as well. Content is gated behind gameplay; that didn't used to be a serious issue. Now I've been out already saying I support changes to gearing because of how time is "gambled" as opposed to "spent" and attunement changes that move raid entry focus to completion over speed runs, but these are because they're ancillary and not necessarily game systems. I am for keeping attunement and maintaining the instance difficulty because content should be gated behind content, content is the point of the game. For people to see raids, I think they should play to earn their way in. Though I give people the benefit of the doubt, there are a lot of people out there who don't feel that way. They think they deserve to see the content because they paid their subscription to see it. That seems a backwards way of gaming, and would produce a backwards kind of game. And we've had a lot of backwards games lately. | |} ---- Before your sub drops off, you should try the PTR if you haven't already. There are a lot of fixes in that, including a gear gap shrink and a bunch of PVP fixes that will probably make it into an upcoming patch (such as the TF fix for spellslingers). | |} ---- ---- ---- Truth. | |} ---- ---- ---- You and a lot of other folks, Roxey. Let's just hope they leave us alone when the time comes to toss that tech in our faces. | |} ----